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Daily Discussion, December 22, 2024

Please utilize this sticky thread for all general Bitcoin discussions! If you see posts on the front page or /r/Bitcoin/new which are better suited for this daily discussion thread, please help out by directing the OP to this thread instead. Thank you!

If you don't get an answer to your question, you can try phrasing it differently or commenting again tomorrow.

Please check the previous discussion thread for unanswered questions.

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JUST IN: 🇸🇻 El Salvador makes another purchase of 11 Bitcoin, pushing towards the recently announced goal of 20,000 BTC 👀
https://redd.it/1hjpgu4
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Fed's 2014 secret Bitcoin Report they don't want anyone to see

Way back when I discovered Bitcoin, there was a post from a Federal Reserve researcher that most here believed to be fake. But I had it bookmarked, always believing it to hold true.

**Game Changer: Bitcoin research at the Federal Reserve and how I've lost my job**

TLDR: A Federal Reserve researcher, with expertise in economics and quantitative analysis, shares how a May 2014 project on Bitcoin’s potential impact led to his team’s professional downfall. Initially tasked with studying Bitcoin as a developing currency, the team treated it as routine work. However, after presenting their first report, they were directed by the Board of Governors to scale their analysis, focusing on Bitcoin as a major currency, including simulations of money flows, interest rates, and its global impact on macroeconomic policy.

The team's findings were shocking: even with moderate adoption, Bitcoin could drastically disrupt traditional currency models and monetary policy. Their simulations indicated that by 2021 (worst-case) or 2026 (best-case), Bitcoin could surpass the US dollar’s global dominance, weakening the Federal Reserve's control. After presenting these alarming results to the Board, the team was punished—disbanded and reassigned to less critical roles with limited resources. The researcher believes that instead of confronting the emerging reality of Bitcoin's disruptive potential, the Fed and the government are suppressing the findings to protect the existing system.

https://preview.redd.it/bhf42gs8ba8e1.jpg?width=1792&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ed0b76f1f668ec1187c0ea30e11ecd0597f0ef5f



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How many times they said bitcoin has died: 🎲
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Would you take bitcoin for payment?

This is so beyond random. I don’t know anything about this stuff, I don’t even dabble in this. I have no idea what the hell bitcoin even is and why I should care.

But this rich ass dude has like 60 bitcoins? He said he could pay me in dollars to do work, like 8 hours. It’s probably $1000 worth of work or he can give me a bitcoin.

Google says it’s worth 98K and 1 million in like 5 years? I don’t get it. Would I be a royal dumbass not to take this?

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money is being made in secular trends: tech and crypto.

Real estate had a nice period where the people who were brave enough to buy the crash got handsomely rewarded. For example, I bought a condo for about $300k in 2013 that is now worth $600k. I put $45k down. My ROI is $300k/45k=660%. The guy I bought it from got it at a 3% mortgage for $200k.

The big issue is that now there is no upside because if you bought it today and rented it your return would be LESS than treasuries.

The secular trends will continue to attract money as conversations continue and people start to realize their houses are not investments, but in fact prisons that PREVENT THEM FROM INVESTING.

THE BIG ISSUE IS THAT REAL ESTATE IS A BET ON TWO THINGS

printed money

lowering of rates

But, if these happen, crypto and tech go up way more

I remember as I sold my properties and borrowed against others I was called crazy. For a long time, I thought I was stupid (I still am).

However, I remember these arguments against crypto, specifically btc in general:

BTC goes up if : DXY goes down, more money printed, lower rates.

Well, rates are still high, DXY is 107, there is only a starting of $ to be printed, and it's still high.

Housing: 2 years and negative.

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Former (and current real estate investor) tries to convince you to go qqq and crypto, real estate is dead money.

I will show why real estate is a HORRIBLE investment going forward compared to btc and crypto. I will post this in the real estate and btc forums.

1st off: I made most of my wealth through real estate and still own a rental and airbnb.

I am not your uncle Ed who will attempt to convince you real estate works because it worked for him.

Real estate works in one of the following scenarios:

1. The return on investment for a cash purpose is high relative to other investments

and/or

has a huge upside appreciation potential.

2. The property cash flows with the minimum amount down. For example, a 500k place you put 25k down and rent it out and the rents >mortgage, taxes, fees, repairs. The investment you are getting is relatively higher than other investments.

As I said, I made most of my initial wealth in real estate through real estate appreciation. I was the guy that put 5% down and the place went up 80% so my ROI = 80* 1/20= 1600%. However, real estate will be in general a shitty performer GOING FORWARD for the following reasons:

40% of American real estate has no mortgages and the return on these properties relative to treasuries, let alone the stock market, are less. This means that if the house was sold and the $ put in treasuries, the return would be greater. In QQQ, way greater.

Much of American real estate is good for the CURRENT holder because taxes are a joke but the #s will not pass on to the next buyer. For example, I have a relative who has a house worth $1.8. The taxes are $1,200 a year for her. For the next buyer, they will be $1,500-A MONTH.

A lot of real estate that is being sold by grandparents and parents will go to investments such as stocks and crypto-that's the direction of money flows for various reasons. These reasons are affordability, qualifying for mortgages, and demographics.

Demographics-the generations of 20-40 it's really clear: their need for big houses is much smaller. Many of these people will be single and or have no kids, or 1-2. The days of having 3-4 kids is getting much much more rare. The big house is not desirable.

Tenant laws: In many states, current landlords (including myself) are seeing the writing on the wall and will not invest again because the laws are not in their favor.

Long term rates: there is an idea that 30 year mortgages might not go back to 3% in a long long time UNLESS there is yield curve control. If that happens, stocks and crypto go ballistic.

Airbnb phenomena: One of the big reasons there was a final push in 2021 -2022 was that low rates made airbnbs very interesting investments. Now, the #s make zero sense.

Capitulation: be honest, how many people do you know who lost homes in 08 and/or refused to buy fearing a crash in 12,14,15,17, 20, and finally relented in 21?


OTHER INVESTMENTS

Real estate investing is really about at its core appreciation or humungous cash flow. The issue is that at today's prices NEITHER works. This doesn't mean there is a crash coming. What this means is pricing will pretty much do NOTHING over the next 5 years as sellers slowly start to cut.

The issue is that if you are a young person of say 18-24 you will see people who got rich off of real estate-I'm one of them-but what you don't understand is that because prices went so low in 2010-2017 and are so high now, they look like geniuses. But for many who are long term holders of real estate, it's good but not nearly as impressive.

Look at this chart and see the value of the guy who bought In 2006-2007 to 2019. NOTHING.

Now, look at the differences for tech stocks and even the standard sp500.

https://preview.redd.it/2zkp85cl298e1.png?width=1718&format=png&auto=webp&s=cf1c41e643119257e069c021dd48a8ab422aa99e

https://preview.redd.it/p6xv4pvw298e1.png?width=1406&format=png&auto=webp&s=a7790892e1ff42944f01f2d829a5a616d90ab48e

https://preview.redd.it/ygyheovw298e1.png?width=1454&format=png&auto=webp&s=b981bfa35d322be768c6fdcde9b24aef2c73872a


The real


This question about fiat messed me up

We all know that prices where much lower in the past due to inflation. A prime example is that in 1915 a burger cost 15 cents (3.51 in today's money) but here is the question that really messed with my head:

"Imagine that the burger shop in 1915 had access to today's burger making technology. Machine made buns made from modified wheat, hormone infused cow fodder, industrialized pickle production, cheap vegetable oils, all of it. Would the burger in 1915 then not be even cheaper than it already was?"

"That is not a fair comparison" you may think "things where cheap then because the price of labor was much much lower!"

Okay, but why was the price of labor lower, yet people could afford to own their own homes and support a family on a single income? I am not saying that someone who where flipping burgers in 1915 lived a luxurious life, I'm just saying that the math is not mathing.

Think about it. The energy cost of production has steadily decreased for a century due to technological advancements, yet not only has the prices sky rocketed but more importantly quality has decreased significantly. Today we pay more for the carcinogenic embarrassment we call food than ever, yet it should be cheaper than ever before. The same burger that in 1915 would cost 3.51 in today's fiat dollars would more likely cost 10x that and be called "grass fed, naturally sourced, ecological, ethically produced, local artisanally made" or some other BS.

Do not trust the official inflation numbers. Things are worse than they want you to realize.

Bitcoin fixes this.

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JUST IN: 🇺🇸 SEC Commissioner Hester Peirce suggests Spot Bitcoin ETFs may have 'in-kind' redemptions in 2025. 'In-Kind' redemptions will allow investors to withdraw their Bitcoin from an ETF to a private wallet.
https://redd.it/1hjfvzu
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🇺🇸 Senator Lummis says she wants to give the Federal Reserve the authority to own Bitcoin.

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Celebrating 2 weeks already 🥳 100k
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Always prioritize stacking bitcoin!
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Notice how the youtube talking heads disappear on red days ....

90% of them are worthless ... the other 10% all live in dubai with 9 figure bank accounts ..... some with 10 figures bank accounts .. yes some of them are genuine but even then you would be better watching their OLD CONTENT ... the new content is all for sale content , order this , become a member , join my paid discord , subscribe to my patreon ..... or shilling you some crap coin that they are getting a 20k check to promote or they are gettting a big air drop from the company ...

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